Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

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Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby chicory13 on Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:42 pm

Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum, and I have been fermenting fruits, vegetables and porridges for some time, but have just branched out to bread. here's what's happening. My sourdough starter is good and bubbly when I use it. I followed the basic sourdough bread recipe in Wild Fermentation. I used organic whole wheat and organic kamut flours. The bread tastes extremely sour, which I'm not sure is normal, and it is very dense- a day later it's as hard as a brick. What is happening here? Is is supposed to be this way? What am I doing wrong? Any insight at all about sourdough or recipes will be greatly appreciated!
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Re: Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby Wannabe Thoreau on Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:13 am

I never had much luck with his bread either. Following his recipes for bread consistently turns out hockey pucks. They fly like a frizbee off my back porch. I've since tried different things, done a lot of baking, and had some good results. Here's what I learned.

You may want to start out making just a basic french bread to get technique down. Ingredients are just starter, white flour, salt, and water. The Tightwad Gazette has a recipee (sourdough simplified) that turns out pretty good results. Once you've made a bunch of these you'll have an idea of what is going on and be able to start toying with it.

When making a whole grain sourdough bread, you want to use about half white flour to about half whole wheat and whatever grains you use. There is something about the gluten content of whole wheat flour that makes it harder to work with. Using the water left over from cooking pasta also helps a lot. Feel free to chuck in leftover rice, sprouted wheatberries, or whatever in place of some of the flour. I've seen recipes for bread that use only whole wheat flour but haven't had much luck with them.

Also, watch the amount of flour you use. When a recipe calls for a certain amount, consider that to be an approximation. You want the dough to be workable when you knead it, but too much makes for a really dense bread. Err on the side of too wet. Sandor was right when he said to add flour until you cannot effectively stir it in the bowl.

On your starter, know the difference between simple air bubbles working their way out and actual fermentation. You want to see a sort of foam.

Finally, I like a little more salt than Sandor does. I found it funny how he talked long and eloquently in his book about how salt was necessary in bread, then only called for two teaspoons in the recipe he gave. You can certainly put in too much, but two tablespoons is more like it. I usually use a plamfull.

I hope that helps.
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Re: Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby AmazonianUnknown on Sun May 03, 2009 5:47 pm

Thanks Wannabe Thoreau for good comments---
I have a few to add.
My first several batches of the basic recycled grain sourdough recipe were exactly brick hard and too sour to be enjoyable eating (though great breadcrumbs after a week drying). I have a healthy starter, and good quality grains going into the sponge. Substituting half white flour does make a difference in texture, and adding a tablespoon of baking soda to the sponge (for the sweetening effect Katz mentions in the hotcakes recipe) lessens the sour acidity.
Still, though, the dough is not willing to rise again after being divided into loaf pans. I've tried rising it for several hours, overnight, and a full day in a closed oven (warmed to between 60 and 90 degrees F) with boiling water poured into a pan beneath every so often to keep high humidity. Why won't it rise....?
Next I'll try half the starter amount and maybe a teaspoon of commercial yeast... but I'd love some advice to avoid diluting the authenticity too much.

Thanks!
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Re: Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby Steve_in_Denver on Thu May 21, 2009 1:17 pm

I haven't done much baking with sourdough starter, but my understanding is that it takes time for the starter to get strong enough to manage to raise a loaf of bread on its own. At this point your live yeast population probably isn't large enough or strong enough to work alone.

"The Bread Bible" by Rose Beranbaum has an excellent chapter on developing and maintaining a strong starter.
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Re: Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby Wannabe Thoreau on Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:40 am

I didn't use anything but King Arthur flour in my original starter. My understanding is that using commercial yeast or fruit aren't good in the long run. Yeasts are specific to the environment they live in. The stuff on fruit is different than the stuff in flour and the air, etc. . . Putting fruit in will actually hurt the starter because the fruit yeast will compete with the natural yeast in the flour. I'm not sure if the science is correct, but it makes sense in my head.

I'm not sure what else to do about rising. Just some thoughts. . .
I form the loaves and put a warm, wet towel over them. I also seem to have good luck when using pasta cooking water for the liquid. The starch gives the yeast a charge. Soba noodles work especially well. If you're not doing it already, use white bread flour rather than all purpose flour. It has a higher gluten content and gives the bread more structure. And again, make sure your starter is active. Again, you're looking for a foamy froth on top.

It actually took me a good while before I started turning out good bread. I had just resigned myself to making pancakes and pizza crusts for six months. Then one day I made a boule for old times sake and it turned out great. i've rarely had a loaf fail since. Maybe there is something to letting your starter develop.
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Re: Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby ferment-nut on Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:40 am

Hi,

There have bean several things that help me.
Make a spunge (basicly make a thiner slery like half flour half water) start small and make two or so doubling the amount. This way you get a good bubbly spunge. I like to have the spunge eqoul about 1/3 of my final dough. I mostly only use whole grains and it comes out great, it takes a little practice. In my starter I only use water and flour the yeast come from the air or grain. I think it helps to use rye flour, and use half water half flour.

I start my first sponge the night before and in the morning double it or more to get as much as I want. I let that sit for 2 or 3 hours then make the final dough, just flour water not a real thick one keep it a little sticky, I give that 2 or 3 hours. Then I part out and shape I add salt while shaping make shure you strech and round them. Cover with wet towls, it helps alot if you can get the temp up a bit while they are proofing. I leave them to proof for 2 to 5 hours and into the oven. it does help to use some white WHEAT flour, I do not like to add any white flour though I am a whole grains kind of guy.
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Re: Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby trashymeowmeow on Fri May 28, 2010 9:01 pm

i was pretty disappointed with my bread for a while until i found the most amazing recipe in this book http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Vegetarian ... /006039295. there are so many good recipes including lots of bread ones. the one i use now and will forever is the bread in a pot recipe. You have gotta use some white flour. if you don't, it does turn out like a brick. the method is mixing the starter, salt, water and flour and kneading it 15 minutes and how you can tell is poking it. if it springs back its kneaded. oil a bowl, cover with plastic or damp towel and let it rise until tripled. this could take a while depending on temperature and things. then you punch it down and rest a few minutes. shape it into a ball and keep sorta tucking it under 4 or 5 times. then rock it back in forth to shape it even more into a ball. lay a towel in a bowel and dust with flour. put the dough in cover it with a towel or plastic again and then let it proof. the book says to do it in the fridge but i don't do that because it takes longer that way. its fully proofed when doubled in volume and when you poke it it hesitates to spring back. preheat oven to 450 and you need a cast iron dutch oven. put the dutchie without bread in the oven for an hour. sprinkle the top of the bread with cornmeal, oatmeal, etc. gently ease the dough in the dutchie cornmeal side down. make sure its centered, cut some slash marks in the dough and cover the pot. bake for about 20 minutes. uncover the dutchie let brown for 10 and when an instant read thermometer reads 210 its done! be prepared for the mosst amazing bread ever. http://www.flickr.com/photos/drunkinmimes/4582864776/
i wasn't gonna explain the whole process but it happened. if there are q's ask me.
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Re: Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby Chewy on Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:06 pm

The Modern Vegetarian Kitchen
Peter Berley (Author)


You make the book sound good so I ordered it at Amazon.com but your link has a problem. but it contains the name of the book.

http://www.amazon.com/

then enter the name of the book.

then choose new or used and hardback or paperback.
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Re: Why is my sourdough bread hard like a brick?

Postby ryen on Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:38 am

A great book to learn to bake whole grain sourdough is Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads. It has great details about the hows and whys in straight-forward easy to follow language. After reading a couple other books and making some alright loaves, this one really did it for me.
The bread I typically make now is 100% whole wheat sourdough with no commercial yeast. It's not quite as airy as one with some white flour in it, but it's far from a brick and absolutely delicious.
Reinhart also has a book called The Bread Baker's Apprentice which I haven't read but it is supposed to be a good book to learn to bake with, too. It focuses more on white flour breads.
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