fruit wines?...

[bravebird]

not much of a wine drinker, generally dont even drink alcohol, BUT i've been itching to try to make some of my own fruit wines...mango, pineapple,...whatever i can get my hands on.
what is the general process for making fruit wines? do i need a special yeast or can it just be done with wilder fermentation?
any insight?

[Christopher Weeks]

The general process is to mash the fruit, mix it with boiled sugar-water (or honey or agave nectar or ...) add yeast (from fruit skins or a packet or a ginger bug or the air) and let it ferment. Then you might rack it off the lees and bottle it or you might just drink it.

But there are a million specifics and I've only made a few batches. I bet other people will respond with good ideas. Check Wild Fermentation for a good and simple country wine recipe.

[Tim Hall]

...as Christopher said. Also google Jack Keller. He has a whole website devoted to making country wines.

One thing to keep in mind is not all fruits lend themselves to making great wines when using just the juice from that one fruit alone. Mangoes, for example, I imagine have enough sugar to make a reasonably strong wine, but it would probably come out really sour tasting after the yeasts have eaten up most of the sugar. Likewise all sorts of berries are great in wine, but if you use too much of say blackberries, it'll come out super tart.

So in addition to adding sugar, agave nectar or honey as fermentable, you can also use something like grape or apple juice as a base...kinda the way most commercial fruit juice blends do.

[bravebird]

thanks guys for the prompt responses! unfortunately i'm a total newbie at this so still have questions.
is there any key to how long the first ferment should be?..or just shoot for a week? are there any visuals to help me know when to stop the ferment?

once the fruit/sugar/water ferment, i have to siphon it into another jar to ferment 6 months or longer. (longer the better, right?) this involves straining the fruit and any weird things floating on top.

after the 6months+ then bottle...for drinking immediately or further aging...

is that basically the process to use?

[bravebird]

...as Christopher said. Also google Jack Keller. He has a whole website devoted to making country wines.

One thing to keep in mind is not all fruits lend themselves to making great wines when using just the juice from that one fruit alone. Mangoes, for example, I imagine have enough sugar to make a reasonably strong wine, but it would probably come out really sour tasting after the yeasts have eaten up most of the sugar. Likewise all sorts of berries are great in wine, but if you use too much of say blackberries, it'll come out super tart.

So in addition to adding sugar, agave nectar or honey as fermentable, you can also use something like grape or apple juice as a base...kinda the way most commercial fruit juice blends do.

i've come across jack's website quite a few times. most recipes i see online call for adding wine yeast and some sort of "nutrient"...is there any benefit to this or can i stick with the "wild fermentation"...hoping that yeasts in the air can do the trick
this would also mean my initial fermentation would need to be longer, right? seems keller generally recommends an initial ferment of 10 days, but that's with the wine yeast added.
would tannins and "acid blends" also be necessary?

[Tim Hall]

I wouldn't mess with tannins and acids and such, unless you're using a recipe that calls for it. Those amendments are aimed at grape winemaking, altering the flavor of of a grape that might be deficient in some way. But if you're really familiar with fermenting a particular fruit, then maybe experiment.

Any of Keller's recipes (and really any wine recipe) can be done wild. Rather than relying on yeast from the air, I would look for yeast on fruit skins. Even if it's not your main ingredient, get some good un-coated organic fruit and put the rind in the fermentor with the juice. This yeast will likely be stronger than just what might be floating around - this yeast is already clinging to the fruit and wants to go work.

I wouldn't worry too much about nutrients either. Certain grapes and notoriously honey are deficient in certain nutrients the yeast needs. The crazier your recipe and the more types of fruits and whatnot you put in there the better nutrition it'll have.

[Christopher Weeks]

So, this depends on how much you just want some hooch and how much you want a learning experience, but I have a suggestion. (This is something I've been meaning to do, but haven't yet set up.)

Produce ~3 gallons of must (fruit, juice and sugar-water) and distribute them into three one-gallon jugs, numbered 1-3. Into 1, drop some raisins and berries and apple skins and plum peel and whatever. Into 2, pour a ginger bug that you've succeeded at getting healthy after 5-10 days or whatever it takes. Into 3, pour a package of wine yeast from your local brewing supply shop. Put them under airlocks and watch for bubbling. Remember to swirl them to help keep your solids mixed up and turned under.

My guess: Jug 3 will be frothy-bubbling inside of a day. 2 will be a little slower. 1 will be much slower than either 2 or 3.

But the real point here is that they'll probably all 'take' and get the job done. Maybe you leave them all for two weeks and siphon them into new jugs, top them off with sugar-water to replace the solids (and whatever liquid you had to leave with the solids) and put them back under airlocks. Swirling is less important at this stage, I think. Maybe swirl for the first couple days until the air is driven out. And then yeah, as you suggested, leave it for six months. That's probably not the 'ideal' protocol -- more racking or filtering and fining or whatever the heck. But it'll do. And after that six months, you taste what you have -- comparing the flavors and then you bottle them. And then you taste it every six months to see how they're aging and how the three age differently.

And during the whole process, you report back to us! :-)

[Tim Hall]

...top them off with sugar-water to replace the solids...

Leave out this step. Often adding more fermentables in the secondary can lead to off flavors because it stresses the yeast, which have already gone through this phase of their life cycle. (You can do this to incrementally increase the alcohol content as successive generations of yeast become more alcohol tolerant, maybe up to 20-25% ABV with a robust yeast, but it makes for a harsh brew.) Just leave the extra air space, and don't worry about it, and let it sit absolutely still under an airlock until you want to bottle it.

Even with strong commercial yeast I let things ferment "open," meaning a carboy cover with foil for air exchange for 2-3 days....but after this put an airlock on it, or you'll eventually get vinegar. The yeasts only need oxygen right at the beginning for multiplying their numbers in the wine, which apparently involves aerobic metabolism. After this it's anaerobic. When you rack to a secondary fermentor, this gives them a little more oxygen to use, and you might see a boost in activity again for a short while.

With wild yeasts, wait to put the airlock on until obvious signs of fermentation...hopefully no more than 4-5 days, after which point I'd pitch a commercial "killer" yeast strain to try to save it from turning into some other kind of ferment (vinegar or nail polish).

BUT the three one-gallon, side-by-side experiment is a good one to do. I once did this with 9 gallons of mead in one-gallon jugs. You can learn a lot this way.

[bravebird]

this being my first wine ferment, i dont think i'll experiment too much. just have to find some good organic fruits and introduce the yeasts on the skins, as recommended. i still have to get some equipment for this :( was gonna use jars but i think i better spend the extra dollars to get the proper materials. might start next week...will let u all know how it goes.....
in terms of initial ferment, im still a bit puzzled, lol. it seems about 10 days was recommended on jack keller's blog, but know i see you're recommending 4-5 days. what should i look for in the initial ferment to tell me when the time is up? i certainly don't want vinegar, lol.

[Tim Hall]

4-5 days with air exchange/stirring to get the wild ferment started. Using a crock or other wide-mouthed container is easiest for stirring obviously. This might be considered the "primary" ferment, but once the stuff starts to bubble I'd put it in a carboy and let it sit for 1-3 weeks, then transfer to the "secondary" or "tertiary," or whatever you want to call it, to sit for a few months or years...until you're ready to bottle.

Example wild fermented wine protocol:
1) Stir wine must daily in open container 3-5 days, maybe it could stretch to 6-7 days, but I'd be worried at this point.
2) Transfer to "primary" fermenter w/ airlock, primary fermentation 1-3 weeks, maybe longer depending on familiarity with your yeats.
3) Transfer (rack) to secondary fermenter w/ airlock, secondary fermentation from a few months to a couple years...maybe omit this step entirely only if you know your yeasts will perform well sur lie, sitting on the dead yeast cake for an extended period.
4) Bottle, drink it, or age it some more.

Commercial yeasts generally don't need a really open vessel to get started (but they do need a good amount of initial oxygen), so the first step described above is generally omitted in this case.

If you were pitching a ginger bug or really yeasty fruit skins, you might just throw it all into the primary fermenter, again skipping step one. But be sure you slosh, swirl your juice really well right at the beginning to get some oxygen dissolved into it.