Yogurt making

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Yogurt making

Postby MikeinHalifax on Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:36 pm

Hello, I have made yogurt off and on for a couple of years now. It is getting harder to find cultures locally. I have made new batches from leftovers from a previous batch. From this community's experience, can this continue indefinitely? The Internet says not to do this more than 3 times, but my sourdough starter has been just fine for over 7 years.

Any thoughts welcome.

Cheers,
Mike
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Re: Yogurt making

Postby Christopher Weeks on Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:46 am

You can do it until you can't; that's all. Feel free to do it until the taste or consistency isn't the way you like, then start again with a new culture.

Most yogurt cultures are a bunch of different organisms, each doing their own thing. If you leave them to their own devices, some will outperform others and the distribution of the bugs will change over time, with some massively proliferating and others dying out completely. And yet others colonizing the heritage culture from the air, the milk and your hands. And the direction that goes will be different on your counter, in your milk, than it will be at my house.

Maybe that process will produce a stable culture over time that makes a yogurt unique to your house, that's just as goodas , but a little different from, the yogurt that your starter culture produced. Or maybe it won't ever firm and will throw off-flavors. Try it and see!

And remember that any live yogurt from the grocer can act as a culture for your milk -- you don't have to buy specialty cultures.
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Re: Yogurt making

Postby MikeinHalifax on Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:09 am

Thank you for the feedback!
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Re: Yogurt making

Postby Gutted on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:46 pm

I would not continue with the same source indefinitely due to bacteriophages. It just seems a bit of a gamble to me. Commercial yoghurt producers are very wary of bacteriophages due to the potential risks.

Maybe you will be okay, maybe you won't. After something like 10 to 20 weeks I begin with a fresh starter. I doubt whether the reasons given for not using the same starter online are entirely valid, more to keep people buying starter. I mainly use capsules so they last a long time and one capsule for 10 to 20 weeks means a small jar of capsules last a very long time in the fridge.
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Re: Yogurt making

Postby Christopher Weeks on Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:01 pm

Gutted, can you expand on gamble related to bacteriophages?
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Re: Yogurt making

Postby Gutted on Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:31 pm

Viruses which target bacteria and change their function and DNA. Potentially anything could result including production of toxins. I think that is why fermented food manufacturers are so wary of them. However it's all a lot of guesswork and reading between the lines on my part. There is so much changeability in bacteria and micro-organisms with even their natural adaptation to their environment changing their DNA that a phage attack might not be a big deal. But who knows what could happen?

It's not something that I worry about unduly but I do refresh things when I think the time is right. If nothing else it makes sure that the bacteria/micro-organisms are strong and functioning at their best without any changes to them.
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Re: Yogurt making

Postby gomberg on Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:18 am

I have resumed making yogurt after a long hiatus and am trying to focus on a Greek style yogurt which has a lot of the whey drained out and is stiffer. You can alter the final product quite a bit by changing the amount of draining. From very stiff (almost like a cream cheese) to creamy and nearly fluid (like sour cream). FWIW, I use skim milk because I am trying to control calories and I use organic milk because I believe it is produced under conditions that are healthier for the herd.

I get my cultures and instructions from Dairy Connection in MN. When I use their starter directly and per instructions I get very consistent and desirable outcomes. If I try to use old yogurt as a starter, not so consistent (and not so desirable). Since I use just the tiniest amount of starter, I don't begrudge the few cents it costs. I use about 20-40 grains of starter (very little) in a gallon of milk.

I also have worked out some strategies to make it go faster, at the cost of a bit of my time. If you want my recipe, just ask and I will post it here.
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco
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Re: Yogurt making

Postby skate on Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:53 pm

Gutted wrote:Viruses which target bacteria and change their function and DNA. Potentially anything could result including production of toxins. I think that is why fermented food manufacturers are so wary of them. However it's all a lot of guesswork and reading between the lines on my part. There is so much changeability in bacteria and micro-organisms with even their natural adaptation to their environment changing their DNA that a phage attack might not be a big deal. But who knows what could happen?

It's not something that I worry about unduly but I do refresh things when I think the time is right. If nothing else it makes sure that the bacteria/micro-organisms are strong and functioning at their best without any changes to them.


All that does beg the question of how traditional peoples have kept milk ferments going for so long, including yogurt. If you can't buy in new starter what do you do? Plus no refrigeration changes milk ferments. Having often lived without a fridge, I'm not sure what we call yoghurt is what has been eaten traditionally.
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Re: Yogurt making

Postby alisoncc on Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:53 pm

Inclined to think that yogurt is just a cut-down variation of kefir, which doesn't require refrigeration. Kefir milk grains seem to last forever, producing a fermented milk with minimal hassle. Given the probiotic content of kefir v yogurt, it's a no brainer which to choose.
Rev Mother Bene Gesserit.

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Re: Yogurt making

Postby Christopher Weeks on Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:22 am

Alison, I don't know what cut-down means in your context and I don't know how the probiotic content of these two foods compares. Can you give more information?
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