Tempeh falls apart

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Tempeh falls apart

Postby RobertN on Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:12 am

Hi guys,
recently I have bad luck with my tempeh production: I made chick pea tempeh and incubated 24h at 32 degrees Celsius. The mold starts to turn greyish. But the final tempeh ist very fragile and not really dense. The tempeh breaks and falls apart. Same phenomenon I got also for soy beans and black beans. What’s the problem?
Thanks for help!
Robert
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby bjdmytro on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:05 am

I've never worked with black beans or chickpeas, but I use either soybeans (tediously splitting them by hand) or what ever split legume I can get my hands on. I've been working with splits peas lately. When ever my tempeh has been slimy, falls apart, etc. it is usually due to too much moisture. A good assessment to do when prepping you beans is to give it the paper towel test. If you put some of the beans on a paper towel and it wicks up any moisture, then your beans are too wet. Depending on your cooking method, this can sometimes be fixed with a hair dryer, but if you over boil your beans the hair dryer won't help. This has also happened when my incubation temperature went out of the 85F-95F range or if I didn't ventilate the CO2 out enough. My current incubator is an Excalibur dehydrator being controlled by a thermostat: Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage, 1100w, w/ Sensor.

Lately, I like working with the split legumes. Starting with dry, organic split peas, I first rinse and drain them about 5 times, until the water comes off clear. Then, I soak for 8 hours. Next, they get one more rinse. Then, to cook them, I put them in a large steamer pot. Once the steam is rising through the beans, I steam them for about 10-15 minutes. They will be al dente at this point, but they soften up a lot when the fungus grows on them, otherwise the cakes end up as mush if the beans are overcooked. I pull the steamer tray out and let it dry off for a moment before putting them into a bowl. Then I add my vinegar and blow dry them with the hot setting on a hair dryer, stirring until they will pass the paper towel test. Next, I verify the temperature is below 105F, add the starter, and put into my bags. I've tried different fermentation times with this method, and about 30 hours seems to yield the best texture.
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby bjdmytro on Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:23 am

This can also be caused by packing your substrate too densely or not dense enough. You need to be in the Goldilocks zone on many parameters, like temperature, density, moisture, air circulation, acidity, softness of the beans, etc. About the only exception is sanitation: the whole prepping process needs to be sanitary, or contamination will be a problem.
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby RobertN on Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:44 pm

Thanks for reply. I don’t think I overcooked my chick peas. I spend them overnight and cooked them the next day for 30 min. Then I let them dry for approx 15 min in a sieve. I put a full teaspoon of starter onto them and mixed. Do you think some wheat flour can help to soak up moisture?
I put them in a Pyrex glass tray and put a sheet of baking paper on it. Maybe I need to press them more thightly in the tray?

Robert
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby bjdmytro on Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:36 pm

You could try it, but the doughy coating that would create probably won't be an optimal environment for the fungus. Are you working with whole chickpeas, split, or are you breaking the beans apart in some way? In my experience, a mashed bean does not give enough air space for the fungus to grow in and whole beans give too much air space. Would your beans pass the paper towel test with that 15 minutes of drying time? In my experience, that isn't adequate with most beans, especially after boiling them, and it leaves the beans too wet. Also, are your beans soft, or do they have a slight crunch left in them, after cooking them? I always try to leave my beans with a slight crunch. I don't want them cooked super soft, like I do for miso. After giving the beans some time to air dry, I've used the hair dryer method, and I've also put the beans back in the pot on low heat and stirred them around till they get really dry.

Check out this resource from the "Lets Grow Mushrooms" DVD set. This is a great learning DVD to watch that gives some good guidelines for growing various types of fungus, with there being some pirated clips on YouTube. This isn't geared towards tempeh, but these guidelines to preparing the grain spawn helps with preparing to grow tempeh. I recommend watching the first five minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNXqvBP34Z8
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby RobertN on Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:43 pm

Thanks! I now assume that my beans are too wet! I will dry them more carefully next time!
I will keep you updated!
Robert
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby bjdmytro on Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:22 pm

Wanting to get a better idea of what is going on with your tempeh, I attempted a batch of chickpea tempeh. I used my usual method of soaking and steaming. I also added toasted seseme seeds, since some people said they had good results with this. It did not turn out. The beans were too dry. I don't know if that is what happened with you, but my cakes only partially colonized. Perhaps I'll try making my chickpeas slightly more moist next time. This could be what is happening with you too. I split my chickpeas. Are you working with split chickpeas?
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby bjdmytro on Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:02 pm

My last post was at the 20 hour point of the fermentation, and I decided that I could either take immediate action or toss it. Shortly after that post, I pulled the batch out of incubator, sanitized a bowl and prep area, boiled water and cooled it to 100F, and added about 1/2 cup of water to my 12 cups of cooked chickpeas and sesame seeds. I added 1 tbsp at a time and stirred to make sure I did not wet it past the point where it would fail the paper towel test. 10 hours later, the fungus is going much better and the cakes are almost fully colonized. Fingers crossed it turns out.
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby bjdmytro on Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:04 am

The chickpea tempeh turned out in the end. It is a lighter spongier cake than soybeans or split peas.
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Re: Tempeh falls apart

Postby RobertN on Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:03 pm

Had much more success with the dryer beans! I tested with soy beans and got a very dense and delicious tempeh. Thanks!
I also tested black bean tempeh and also made them very dry. Nonetheless, the tempeh was crumbly again! I thought about twice and thought maybe it needs more time? I incubated 24h at 32°C (~ 90°F). Maybe I need to prolong the incubation time?
Many thanks,

Robert
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