Salt Rising Bread

[ChasDun]

After enjoying salt rising bread (SRB) as a child, I now want to bake some. I found several recipes on the web, picked what appeared to be the best, and got started. My first was not all that bad. A little flat and squatty, but with reasonable odor and flavor. So, I try again except that I reduce the temperature for fear that I am killing the microbes responsible for SRB action (Clostridium perfringens by all accounts – a well known food bourn pathogen. This fact has generated a lively discussion between old-time foodies and worry-wart germ-o-phobes about the advisability of inviting a known pathogen into your food. But all seem to agree, some grudgingly, that no one seems to have croaked on account of SRB.) So I advanced on my next three or four tries - each not even getting past the starter stage. Just no activity at all.

Back to the web I go. Now I find a thesis from Cornell and learn that I've probably been mixing the starter at too low a temperarture. It emphasizes the importance of using really hot water (140°F) when mixing the starter and sponge (probably in order to activate C. perfringens spores) and then incubating both starter and sponge at 113°F. This worked rather feebly once, but then fell flat the next two tries.

So now I need expert help. In a phrase: how the heck do I reliably get an active starter for SRB? Thanks.

[Tim Hall]

ChasDun, wow, thanks for posting this. I'd never even heard of this kind of bread before. Very cool to learn about it.

I'm obviously not an expert with this particular food, but the principles are very similar to other types of ferments. Few questions for you, and I might be able make some suggestions:

What kind of flour are you using?
What salt concentration goes into the starter?
Do you proof (secondary fermentation) the loaf, and if so, for how long and at what temperature?

There's a lot of conceivable places within the process where you might be able to make improvements.

[sbrown]

I think you must have visited my website that is all about salt rising bread (Susan Brown's "Keeping the Tradition Alive"), since you mentioned the thesis from Cornell, which is on there. I would be happy to help you with your SRB problems, if you'd like to send me an email at srbwva@gmail.com. I've been making this wonderful bread for many years and currently bake it at a small bakery near Morgantown, West Virginia, from where we ship it all over the US.

Susan Brown

[Christopher Weeks]

If you guys do work this out through email where none of the rest of us get to see it, it would be great if you could report back on your findings!

[sbrown]

I am happy to discuss any questions on this blog. I just suggested using my email address in case others had different problems with their SRB than ChasDun has. Susan

[Tim Hall]

Susan, I'm very curious about this. I see the one recipe which calls for baking soda. Is salt sometimes also used? The description of the starter process sounds very similar to dosa, which uses salt and can develop a distinct cheesy odor also, if you let it go long enough.

[sbrown]

Yes, salt is sometimes used in SRB starters. The fact is that there are many, many variations in SRB starter ingredients. The key ingredient, however, is the one which has the bacteria on or in it which need to grow in order to ferment the starter; that is to say potatoes, cornmeal, and/or flour.

[Tim Hall]

Thanks, Susan. I found the subsequent recipes on your site. Please let us know what you determined with ChasDun's issues, if you wouldn't mind. We all like to learn about cool ferments like this.

[ChasDun]

Susan and Others,
Thanks for your responses. The thing is this: I have tried all sorts of starter combinations (potatoes, salt, no-salt, whole corn meal, de-germed corn meal, whole wheat flour (sticky to the max)) with spotty results. Maybe what would be of most help is to get your (Susan B's) detailed thoughts on recipe and conditions (temperature, times and specific ingredients in particular) for a good starter. Activity at that stage seems to be the key. If the starter is active, good bread. If not active, dump in yeast and salvage your flour because salt rising bread ain't happening here today.

I normally use a starter, sponge, and then a dough. Three fermentations. Ms. Holbrook's thesis (which I did find through Susan B's website - many thanks to you - was helpful).

For those of you who haven't tried good SRB - it's superb - especially toasted with a good marmelade.

Thanks for your help.

[sbrown]

How about we start with this ---a very simple SRB starter recipe.
I often suggest this recipe to new SRB bakers, since, if it doesn't work, you haven't lost much (ingredient wise).

1 Tbs corn meal
1 tsp flour
1/8 tsp baking soda
½ c. scalded (not boiled) milk

Mix all the ingredients together in a jar or bowl and put in a warm place for about 12 hours. Keeping the starter around 104 degrees for this duration is super critical to the success of your SRB. The thing to know about SRB is that if you keep the temperature too low, the bacteria cannot grow, and if you keep it too high, the bacteria will die.
If you need suggestions on ways to keep your starter warm, let me know, as I can tell you about a few different options.

In the morning, or after the approximate 12 hours, you want to see layers of bubbles/foam on top of your starter and there must be a sort of rank smell to it. If you do not have these, your starter has not worked, and you should discard this and begin again.

Good luck!
Susan