refridgerated sourdough

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refridgerated sourdough

Postby floralsurprises on Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:09 pm

Hi!

So I've begun making sourdough about 3 or 4 months ago.
I got a recipe for the starter that said you only feed it when you use it and to refrigerate it afterwards.
I know everyone has their own opinions about it, but I need advice about 2 things:

How should I feed it? (do I get it to room temp once a month and put a tbsp of water and flour in it? Then let it sit for a while?) I usually add like a 4th cup of each to feed it after its at room temp, then let it sit until the blackish liquid forms on top, then stick in the fridge. I only feed it about once or twice a month. I want to know if I'm doing something wrong.

Also, when I use it, do I need to get it to room temp before I bake?

Any other advice would be helpful.
Thanks!
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Re: refridgerated sourdough

Postby WWFSM on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:12 pm

There are hundreds of different ways you can do this. Some ways work better than others. Keep in mind, that there are many varieties of yeast and they all act differently, so I recommend dividing your starter into two or more and experimenting with different methods, keep which starter turns out the best.

I'm very opinionated and vocal about sourdough - I take the stance that there is virtually infinite variety in how one can keep a starter, and that many authors these days are far too strict about how to keep a starter. Sourdough is extremely flexible and can fit into almost any schedule.

A starter can last in the fridge for several months, even years between feeding; however, it does not thrive under these conditions and needs special steps to wake it up. The point is, if you forget your starter for a week or two extra, do not toss it out.

Try to feed your starter every week to 10 days when you can, this way the yeast will stay more active and the sour making beasties won't overwhelm the yeast.

I feed my starter right out of the fridge, leave it on the counter for 2 to 40 hours, depending on how things go that day, then put it back in the fridge. If I left the starter out for longer than 24 hours, I may give it a few extra Tbs of flour and a splash of water just before putting it in the fridge.

What is generally recommended these days is to feed a starter is to give it enough food to double in size. Most people toss out half of the starter, then feed it. They then let it double in size at room temp, before putting it back in the fridge. But that's just one way of doing it, and is by no means a hard and fast rule.

Quite often I will use the entire container of starter, then feed the container - the starter stuck to the inside of the jar has enough yeast in it to permeate the flour/water mix in a couple of hours. The total size of my regular starter is about 1/4 cup, maybe less. hmm... let's talk about starter and sponge.

Starter is the main mush where your yeast is living. Sponge is a mixture of starter, flour, liquid (usually water), and sometimes other things, that you make a few hours/days before baking bread to get the yeast super excited and ready to go.

You can bake bread with just a starter, but a sponge gives you the opportunity to control the taste, how much it rises, how long it takes to rise, the shelf life of the final bread, and a whole other range of variables.

By using a sponge, I can keep a much smaller starter. I also keep a thicker starter, not much thinner than playdough, because it has more acid which extends the shelf life of the bread and reduces the frequency I need to feed it.

The night before I bake bread, I make a sponge with a Tbs or two of starter, flour, water, and any leftover cooked grains or pulses kicking about the house. I usually make this the texture of a runny pancake batter. I also feed my starter at this time. The next morning, I put the starter in the fridge and make the bread with the sponge. The sponge has woken up the yeast which vastly improves the finished loaf.

The liquid on top of your starter is probably hooch (alcohol). This can retard yeast activity and eventually kill it, so I generally recommend you put it in the fridge before the hooch forms, or add less water when you feed the starter.

Room temp before you bake? Generally yes. There are exceptions, but as a rule, you want the yeast to be active before you add salt to it. The starter can be cold if you are making a sponge first.

Sorry, that's probably a bit more than you wanted to know.

The "Baking with Sourdough: Storey Country Wisdom Bulletin A-50" booklet is a good start to understanding the different things you can do with starters and sponges. http://www.amazon.ca/Baking-Sourdough-Country-Bulletin--50-ebook/dp/B004HFR1RO/ref=sr_1_42?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1384117457&sr=1-42&keywords=sourdough
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Re: refridgerated sourdough

Postby floralsurprises on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:55 am

Thank you so much!
That helps a lot.
Its good to know that sourdough is so flexible and what is needed for the best quality.

Just to make sure I understand a couple more things,
if the hooch forms while in the fridge, is that ok?

And if I were to feed it 1 cup of flour and a half cup of water every week to 10 days would that help improve it?

Also, the recipe I had for the starter said to add a pinch of sugar every time I used and fed it. Do you know why that is and if it makes a difference in my starter?
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Re: refridgerated sourdough

Postby WWFSM on Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:04 pm

if the hooch forms while in the fridge, is that ok?


That's fine. Hooch is a natural side effect of sourdough (yeast plus grain plus moisture plus time = some sort of alcohol). Remember, the fridge does not halt your sourdough, it just slows it down a lot. The fridge hooch will be (almost) the same as any hooch that forms while your starter is sitting on the countertop.

And if I were to feed it 1 cup of flour and a half cup of water every week to 10 days would that help improve it?


Short answer, that's probably too much flour for the water. It's usually very close to 1:1 when measuring by volume (as opposed to by weight). Also, probably a lot more flour than you need.

Long answer, There are literally hundreds of different ways to go about feeding your starter. On top of that you have different kinds of flours have different moisture content which vary from year to year, so the amount of water will change depending on the flour... and so on.

The best way I've found to keep a starter going is to use it every two weeks (more often is better). This is because it removes a good chunk of the starter and then you feed the starter new food. Because your yeast is going to be dormant from the temperature of the fridge, using a sponge will really liven it up.

Removing some of the starter when feeding is actually benificial because it gets rid of... over simplified: starter eats, starter poops, too much poop make starter sick, so need to get rid of some of the old stuff. Starter poop includes dead yeast and alcohol and other things that are good for you but generally, not so good for the starter.

If you aren't able to use the starter, then feeding it every week or two is a good idea. But how much to feed it? Most people judge this on the size of the starter. A lot of people say you absolutely need to double the size of the starter; however, for home baking it's not necessary. Doubling it is really good for large batches at a bakery or for getting a very specific texture, but is in no way required for keeping your starter alive and viable.

Generally, if I'm just keeping the starter viable, then I'll give it a couple of tablespoons (aka, a fist full, because I put my hand in the flour and grab a fist full of flour) of flour and some water until it's the texture I want. The other thing that governs how much I feed my starter is the size of the container it's in.

As an example: when I'm travelling I'll keep a starter of 2 or 3 teaspoons in size, because I can always use the sponge to increase the amount of yeast to what I need for a recipe. When I feed my travel starter (It travels with me at room temperature so I have to feed it at least once every 24 hours, unless I forget, then it's every 48 hours), I feed it literally one pinch of flour and a few drops of water. If I use it, then I'll replace the volume that I used. If I fed it more than that, it would climb out of it's travel-size container (or if tightly sealed, will explode the container).

Set measurements like cups and teaspoons, &c. are a really new thing to baking and a normal person's kitchen. Though they started showing up in the late 19th Century cookbooks, but only really took off 100 years ago (in the early 1920s). Sourdough has been around long before that, and people didn't worry about getting the amounts just so. We don't need to worry about it either. Your sourdough will forgive you if you don't get out your measuring cups.

The goal should be to get the desired texture and effect, not hold yourself firm to set amounts.

Just to clarify: Feeding your starter means giving it flour and water then leaving at room temperature for a few hours to start 'eating' it before going into hibernation (fridge) again.

Also, the recipe I had for the starter said to add a pinch of sugar every time I used and fed it. Do you know why that is and if it makes a difference in my starter?


A pinch of sugar!?! No! Don't do that. Please don't. Pretty please! Not only is it unnecessary, it will encourage other things to grow in your starter that either make it taste bad or will kill it.

All it needs is flour (I like rye or wheat, or better still alternate between the two) and water. The bacteria in your starter digests the starches in the flour, magically transforming them into a sugar that your yeast feeds on. The bacteria is what's making things sour, the yeast is what's making things rise.

The only time you need sugar in your bread, well two times... is if you want it to taste sweet or if you are using fast acting commercial yeast which is designed to feed of fast sugars.

See if your local library has Nigella Lawson's book, How to be a Domestic Goddess. Her sourdough recipes are the simplest and most clear cut for just starting out. She does give specific amounts, but in a way that act as a comfort for those who are trained to use cups and measures, but not so strict as to be insulting to the history of sourdough.
Doing my best to be the change I want to see in the world, one meal at a time.
http://wholewheatfsm.blogspot.ca

Currently Culturing
Kombucha, perry, cider, wine (red and white), mead(s), miso, sourdough, & seasonal veg my garden gives me
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Re: refridgerated sourdough

Postby music on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:19 pm

I get around this problem by continually baking :D

Sugar, yes, I agree, a real no-no. Sugar is good for a ginger bug, not for a sourdough starter. After the sponge has risen, sugar or honey/molasses etc can be added to the loaf if that is what's desired. This is also the only time to add salt, as salt retards fermentation. If you make kefir, kefir milk or whey is good for reviving flagging starters, and also good for culturing them in the first place.
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